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Heart-repreneur® RadioPodcastsHeartrepreneur® Radio | Episode 161 | An End To Upside Down Thinking: Mark Gober on Consciousness

March 7, 2019


All we know about consciousness is being in awareness with the present moment; but what happens when the body dies? Will consciousness survive? Answering one of life’s hard questions is the author of An End to Upside Down Thinking, Mark Gober. He believes that contrary to what people and skeptics think, consciousness survives when our bodies die. He talks about this different perspective, regarding consciousness as the primary basis of the universe. Matching it with scientific evidence, he presents some research that supports his argument and takes us into some whole other meaning to life.

Listen to the podcast here:
An End To Upside Down Thinking: Mark Gober on Consciousness
An End to Upside Down Thinking: Dispelling the Myth That the Brain Produces Consciousness, and the Implications for Everyday Life

I’m not always that jazzed about who I’m interviewing. I’m being transparent. I’m excited to interview everyone but not super jazzed. This is a guest I’m super jazzed about. His name is Mark Gober and he’s an author whose worldview was turned upside down in late 2016 when he was exposed to world-changing science. After researching extensively, he wrote An End to Upside Down Thinking to introduce the general public to these cutting-edge ideas. All in an effort to encourage a much needed global shift in scientific and existential thinking. I have been studying the laws of the universe for twenty-something years and I am fascinated by it. When I read Mark’s book, An End to Upside Down Thinking, I remember it said, “The book will change the way you look at everything,” and it did. It’s opened my mind up even further. I was already totally into many of the laws of the universe and understanding how things work on a very conscious level. This book changed everything and has expanded my awareness. Mark, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Terri. I’m looking forward to this discussion.

I was reading about your background, a partner in the Silicon Valley investment bank and strategy firm. I’m like, “What?” How did that bring you to be able to look at something that’s important and challenging in our universe?

It’s been an independent passion for the last few years. I started researching these topics in August of 2016 and it came about in a spontaneous way. I was listening to podcasts and they exposed me to some of the concepts for the first time. I got interested in the concepts and then spent a year doing nothing but researching. I wanted to understand this universe that we’re in. What I was learning were ideas that I had never been exposed to before. It caused me to rethink reality and who and what we are. After researching for about a year, I decided to put my thoughts and research on paper and wrote most of the book. I wrote the whole draft in July of 2017. I got it out because I felt I needed to. That’s the book that you’re discussing, An End to Upside Down Thinking.

I’ve been reading for twenty-something years many books on consciousness and on what’s happening in the universe. Understanding the principles that govern the universe that people either don’t accept, don’t talk about or they’re invisible. People don’t even know how to recognize them. I never found a book that explained it with the research behind it in terms that the average person can understand. What I loved about the book is it had so much research. It was like this is all proof. It was written in a way where even a skeptic could bring in these new ideas which to many might seem very radical and allow people to understand these concepts and these principles. Why did you do the book with so much research in it?

I’m glad that you thought it was written in that way. That was my intention. It was one of the holes or gaps that I saw in the literature when I was doing my research. That there were books that were either too scientific and too specific or books that were idea-based and based on anecdotes and didn’t have enough of the evidence. There was something in the middle that had not been written yet which compiled all the evidence but was also written in a way that anyone can understand it. Those were some of the parameters that I gave to myself when I wrote the book because I wanted it to appeal to many different audiences. In our environment and society now, people like to see scientific evidence. That’s why the book is filled with evidence and people can take that and interpret it for themselves.

I’ll share a little story with the book. I brought it to an event where I was speaking and I was telling people that I’m reading this book for the second time. It is one of the most eye-opening books that I’ve read. What you probably don’t know is I read 200 books a month. I do something called photo reading. I read a ridiculous amount of books and I rarely read a book twice because I speed read. I read the book twice and I didn’t speed read. I brought it to my group where I was speaking and I said, “You have to get this book. You have to hear about this book.” One of my client family members who were there is the biggest skeptic. You couldn’t find anyone more skeptical. I said, “Read the book. Just read it.” She said, “Okay.” She sent me a text and she said, “You’re right. I am starting to change how I look at things.” I asked her, “Why? What’s the why behind this?” She’s heard me and others speak about some of these things and she said, “Because of the research, I can’t ignore it anymore.” I say kudos to you because a lot of these conversations, Stephen Hawkins and what other people have talked about, a lot of times people go, “Whatever, that’s not true. That’s a pie in the sky.” You can’t argue with scientific evidence.

I’m glad to hear that your friend had that reaction. In my research, what I’ve realized is that even when there’s evidence, some people or at least in certain communities will still ignore it. That’s very encouraging to me that someone skeptical is willing to read it and saw the evidence. One is intellectually honest, then one evaluates evidence without prior bias. We evaluate things based on the merits of the evidence. That’s the way I wrote the book. I tried to lay it out and when you look at all of it, it becomes very difficult to shoot down everything. That’s the way it’s been for me in my own journey. There is so much evidence in a diverse set of disciplines that I can’t personally ignore it. That has led to a major shift in my worldview.

Based on what you know, how did that change how you are every day in life and how you think or did it? Tell us about that.

To give a very brief overview of the shift that I’m talking about. I used to think, and my thinking was in line with much scientific thinking and thinking in society. Right now I have an awareness, a subjective inner experience that we call consciousness. That comes from things that are happening in my head, chemical reactions in my brain. That’s the only reason that I’m conscious. If you buy into that, then when your brain dies, when your body dies, then it’s over. Your memories are gone, your consciousness is gone and that leads to a very bleak life outlook because there can’t be any meaning beyond the rationalization. Once you’re dead, it’s over. I thought life had no meaning. I would go about my day-to-day but in the back of my mind, I knew that any meaning I ascribe to life’s events were just rationalizations.

Now, I have a very different perspective. This is the upside-down thinking that my books refer to. I regard this consciousness as being the primary basis of the universe and the body is like the lens or the vehicle through which consciousness is having an experience. It makes the bodily experience seemed like a blip in the radar relative to the total life of consciousness. The notion that our consciousness survives when our body dies, that’s a dramatic shift. Beyond that, if our consciousness is surviving, that at the very least bring some meaning to life. What that meaning is up for debate, but it brings meaning when I used to think there was no meaning. That’s a huge shift.

I was having a conversation with someone and I wanted to bring this to your attention. They were talking about death. I was saying, “Maybe we leave our physical body, but maybe we don’t. Maybe there’s a whole different thing going on in the universe. Maybe we’re infinite unlimited beings.” The person said, “What kind of ridiculousness is that? Everything that’s happening is real. Everything that we see is real.” I said, “What if there are things beyond this movie of what we perceive?” How do I begin to explain An End to Upside Down Thinking so that in an easy and simple way, maybe even the audience can get what we’re talking about?

We evaluate things based on the merits of the evidence. Click To Tweet

One of the reasons why I felt I need to write the book is because it’s about the accumulation of evidence. Where I like to start is with the mainstream assumptions. People are typically shocked to know that Science Magazine has said the number two question remaining in all of science is how does the brain produce consciousness? How does biology, which is physical, like I can touch my body, I can touch my head, but I cannot touch my consciousness? Science has no idea how that happens. We open up with a huge question about consciousness. We know consciousness exists because we’re all conscious right now. However, we don’t know how the brain can produce it and science thinks that it comes from the brain because the brain is correlated. It’s highly related to our conscious experience but has no idea how it could produce it. When one raises that question, this is a huge question that’s hammering home that point, that opens the door.

Looking at different pieces of evidence that I discussed in the book. Things like remote viewing, the ability to perceive something when you’re not there physically. To be able to say that CIA documents, that are downloadable by anybody that they declassified, say that remote viewing is a real phenomenon. Those are some of the quick ones that I’d like to start with. Depending on who you are speaking with, if the person is highly intellectual, the argument that I start the book with, which is that it’s a more conservative and skeptical position to say that consciousness is primary. Rather than saying that the universe pre-existed and then consciousness came later. Even this idea that there is an objective independent universe outside of consciousness, that idea is pretty twisted. That objective universe that’s being observed is being observed subjectively by our consciousness. It’s like we start with this outside world and then we emerged in it, but our full experience, there’s nothing actually objective. It’s all occurring within consciousness. When that clicked for me, it is a world-changing thing. Why have we assumed that there is an out there and then we emerged within it? It’s not the way we experience life.

I hope that the audience will get this book. If you reading this blog, you’re what we call a Heartrepreneur, which is someone who is heart-centered and who is open, who is present, conscious, breathing and truly open to embrace ideas and to allow information in. You get to take in information, process it, and feel through it. In An End to Upside Down Thinking, you will be able to do that and at the same time, you will have proof. I have a very good friend who talks a lot about infinite unlimited beings. When I say, “Where’s the proof?” He doesn’t have scientific studies. He has what he believes in the world and I happen to believe much of the same. However, in An End to Upside Down Thinking, you get proof and it’s not proof like this airy-fairy person did this woo-woo thing. You talked about people at major universities, you talked about the CIA. You blew me away with the research that you have because you cannot look at that research. Mark, tell people where to get the book, how to connect with you. For the audience, get this book. It will change how you look at everything and you will appreciate your life even more.

You can find the book on Amazon. It’s available in hardcover, Kindle or audiobook. It’s also at Barnes & Noble and many other bookstores. My website, which is my name, has more information on me and my book. Also, a podcast where many of the scientists that I talked about in the book and more information on that is available at my website.

Grab the book. Go over to Amazon, An End to Upside Down Thinking. I’m going to make a recommendation that you get the hardcover book. It’s the book you’re going to want to personally hold like that. Go to Amazon and then go over to Mark’s website. Mark, thank you so much for writing the book and for agreeing to be my guest on the show.

Thank you so much, Terri. It was fun.

For the audience, you’ve never heard me speak this strongly about a book and I want you to get An End to Upside Down Thinking. I want to thank you for tuning in to the show. I will remind you to subscribe and as an audience, you get a free membership at Go over there, set up your free account. There are courses in there worth thousands and thousands of dollars that I’m gifting you as one of our loyal audience. Thanks so much for tuning in here at Heartrepreneur Radio.

Important Links:
About Mark Gober

An End to Upside Down Thinking: Dispelling the Myth That the Brain Produces Consciousness, and the Implications for Everyday Life By Mark Gober A Revelatory Look at the Evidence that Upends the Scientific & Public Belief That the Material World is the Foremost Reality—and How That Reversal Explains Our Seeming “Wizard-Like” Abilities Whether you realize it or not, most of modern society’s thinking is based upon a philosophy known as “materialism”—the notion that physical material, known as “matter,” is fundamental in the universe. In other words, it’s the basis of all reality. Everything is comprised of matter, and everything can be reduced to matter.

But a fascinating read through Mark Gober’s An End to Upside Down Thinking: Dispelling the Myth That the Brain Produces Consciousness, and the Implications for Everyday Life and you will know otherwise. This compelling book marshal the clear evidence and makes the case that consciousness is the force that precedes matter—and upends all of the scientific and popular thinking that the brain (matter) creates consciousness. Science dismisses any evidence to its contrary position—a position it can’t prove–relegating the “matter-produces-consciousness” argument to nothing more than unfounded belief and faith—just another a form of ”religion,” Gober holds.

But once he begins to cite the evidence that consciousness is the basis of all reality and can create or transform matter, that’s where things get REALLY interesting in An End to Upside Down Thinking. Gober re-examines the seeming “wizard-like” gifts of telepathy, remote viewing, precognition, psychokinesis, near-death experiences and remembrance of past lives through this new filter, bringing forth the scientific studies that support this viewpoint…and even if you’ve read some studies in the past, there are new ones here that will astonish you, along with remarkable, overwhelming statistics that will leave you with little doubt.

Mark Gober Biography Mark Gober is an author whose worldview was turned upside down in late 2016 when he was exposed to world-changing science. After researching extensively, he wrote An End to Upside Down Thinking to introduce the general public to these cutting-edge ideas –all in an effort to encourage a much-needed global shift in scientific and existential thinking. Mark, a partner in a Silicon Valley investment bank and strategy firm, has long sought answers to life’s challenging questions.

As an undergraduate at Princeton University, he was drawn to astrophysics because he wanted to understand the universe. But because due to commitments as a member of Princeton’s Division I Tennis Team, he decided that astrophysics would be too demanding. So instead of studying the invisible forces that govern the universe, he studied the invisible forces that secretly drive human behavior, getting a degree in psychology, focusing on behavioral economics. In the summer of 2016, he randomly stumbled across a series of podcasts that exposed him to some radical new ideas. Those ideas put into question the most basic assumptions about who and what we are as human beings. An End to Upside Down Thinking will change how you look at everything! Website:

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