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Heart-repreneur® RadioPodcastsHeartrepreneur® Radio | Episode 39 | Pamela Naidoo Interview

June 23, 2017


TL:  Welcome to another episode of Heartrepreneur® Radio.  This is Dr. Terri, Chief Heartrepreneur® and Business Strategist, and excited that you have been tuning in and listening to the amazing guest experts that I have been so honored to have with me.  And I have another really fascinating expert with me today, her name is Pamela Naidoo and she is a Friendship Expert and a Friendship Coach.  I just want to tell you I’ve been coaching and consulting for 21 years, I’d thought I’d met every kind of coach or consultant, and I haven’t met a friendship one, so I’m really excited about today!  Pamela resides in London, she was born and raised in South Africa where she trained as a professional Chemical Engineer, so I’ll have to find out how she made this change.  Her greatest passion is people, he most admired strengths are her friendship skills, well that makes sense, doesn’t it?  And she’s on the mission to extend this friendship knowledge with the world, and she’s teamed up with some of the world’s leading scientists and research scholars, and they’re exploring friendships.  Specifically, the study of dynamics of male/female platonic friendships, which happens to be the fastest growing social attraction on the plant, which has me raise like 20 questions I can’t wait to ask. Pamela published her 1st book called Just Friends:  The Ultimate Girl’s Guide to Male Friendships and that is being released May 10th of 2017.  So, whenever you’re listening to this show, make sure you get a copy of the book.  Pamela, welcome to Heartrepreneur® Radio.

PN:  Well thank you very much for the beautiful introduction Terri, I’m honored to be here.

TL:  I’m excited about you, so, first I have to ask you my curiosity question.  Chemical Engineer to Friendship Coach?  What the heck, tell me!

PN:  It’s one of those things in life where you have two passions, and you love them both equally.  And, in this situation it’s almost a case of trying to march them both. Engineering brought a lot of technical skills which I enjoyed, more my left brain thinking, and my right brain thinking was more my creativity when it came to friendships.  And those two worlds collided when I realized I had so much interaction with men from the time I was raised.  I had two brothers and went on to choose a career that was male dominated.  My entire working career has been surrounded by a very dominant work force, and traveling around these males and being around men in general, sort of acquired all of these life skills that made me feel very comfortable about male friendships particularly.  And, I used to get asked by so many people over many, many years, how is that you have so many guy friends?  And how do you differentiate between, oh I want to date these ones, and these ones that are my friends, that have so much respect for you?  How do you get guys to build that relationship with you?  And this pop conversation landed into a full-blown journey of combining my strengths and my creative friendship skills together, and bringing you The Ultimate Girls Guide to Male Friendships, which is culmination of my personal experiences.  Plus, it’s been scientifically endorsed, it’s got all the methods of science and the understanding of why we behave the way we behave so awfully.  I mean, I don’t know if I have all the answers, but ultimately, we have some understanding now.

TL:  Wow, this is fascinating.  And the reason I’m really fascinated it the majority of my friends are male.  Why is this happening in the world, what’s going on?

PN:  So, the big change or the big multi-version for opposite sex friendships is gender equality.  We’re now on the same playing field as men, we study together, we take on the same jobs, we play the same sports and we do other stuff men do.  And both genders co-exist now more than ever before.  Several studies show how the millennials of today are not just twice, but four times more likely to have opposite sex friends, then from our parents’ generation, and that wasn’t even that long ago.  So, in the past, opposite sex friendships were viewed as an exception, but today in modern times, they’ve definitely progressed to being the rule and it’s a new interaction, it’s the fastest growing social interaction on the planet.  And, as we walk and co-exist together, it sets a different human dynamic.

TL:  This fascinates me then too, I’m so excited to talk to you.  Why is it that I feel with a male friend, really comfortable in sharing things I would never share with a female friend?

PN:  So, I’m a strong believer that we are wired differently.  We see the world differently and we have different respectable things.  The reason why I’m similar to you when I feel a lot more comfortable, and when you read my book you’d be able to relate to a lot of these situations where, I kind of feel less judged when I’m around my male friends.  And it’s not like I don’t value my female friends, I love my girlfriends, but when I’m with my guy friends it’s a different value that they bring to my life, and I think men in general, or my guy friends, and all the men I’ve met, they’re relaxed.  They’re easy going, they don’t sweat the small stuff.  And I’m not saying women do this, but in general, they have a different approach to seeing the world than we do.  It all boils down from where we’ve come from in terms of our ancient human history.  We had clearly different roles from where we’re coming from, and those roles are still with us biologically and they effect how we co-exist with each other.

TL:  So interesting, so interesting.  So, what should a female know in this relationship, and what should a male know in this relationship?

PN:  So, I think for females it’s important from the way where we’ve grown, it’s called the almost social norm, where we tend to want to spend more time and attracted to the same sex for company and companionship.  And, that’s with us from the time we’re in school, and we tend to hang out with people that look like us, and then we stay keeping the same types of friends right into adulthood.  However, when you have exposure to males in your environment, either at home and then when you get to University, where it becomes easier to make male friends, and more acceptable cuz you work together so often, you’ll soon see that there’s a different value in terms of how women and men can make friends.  But the big thing is in terms of how they can actually become friends, is the two genders understanding each gender, if that makes sense?  It’s men understanding how women think, and women understanding how men think and behave.

TL:  Uhm-hmm.

PN:  And it think that area, I mean we can go into a lot more detail, but it’s in that gray area you have people who have different understandings of how we’re wired, and there’s now blurred lines.

TL:  So, what’s some of the information that people should know in business, dealing with males or females, or just to relate to business?  I guess that’s my question.

PN:  Absolutely, that’s a very important question.  I think when it comes to forging male friendships in the work place, for me I think working with guys is great, I wouldn’t have it any other way.  But once you figure them out, embracing gender difference makes a big difference to your work place environment.  But, how do you actually make friends in the work place?  So, there’s a few things.  The first one is understanding that they ask for help differently, we ask for help differently.  Men are more solution orientated, are natural problem solvers, they want to find solutions to things.  And, women are more process orientated, we enjoy the process in terms of how we get to a problem.  We listen differently.  Men look for the problem and identify the solutions, and again, women, we prefer knowing all the details before we make a decision.  They also tend to handle the emotions very differently in the work place.  They are slightly better than us at not taking things so hard.  So, if the dude in the cubicle next to you didn’t say hello in the morning, don’t take it personally.

TL:  That’s the best advise!

PN:  It’s also in terms of how we delegate responsibilities.  When you work with men, you’ve got to be very clear on the tasks you want to achieve, clarity is everything when working with guys.  And I think with women, we tend to soften it up and we tend to have an emotional approach, to get the same results.  I mean, there’s nothing wrong with either approach, it’s different approaches to get to a specific goal.  The big one would be communication.  Men are more direct in their language and communication style, they ask very direct questions and in turn, they expect very direct answers from yourself as well.  Women are a little bit more elaborate in their language style, and we would take a different approach to things.  The big one I’ve noticed and I’ve talked about all of this in my book, is that men can work with people they don’t necessarily like.  Women on the other hand, tend to form opinions that can cloud their judgments when it comes to their work colleagues.  So, if Ben cheated on Vanessa, then Ben might become tainted in your view, and we naturally associate and connect disconnected things, if that makes sense?

TL:  Yep.

PN:  Men will share their personal lives with their partners and their close friends.  Women, we’re slightly different.  We’re very expressive and we don’t necessarily have to feel close to you to share our lives with you.  I mean, we’ll happily share it with the hairdresser, the neighbors, the co-workers.  We just accept the way that men are quite crisp in terms of how they come across and they’re very private with their lives.  And the other important things I would say is how you come across when you work with men.  I think your verbal gestures and your body language plays such an important role, and not just in the office.  But in the office, you ultimately have a make-shift audience, people are watching you and you need to have a professional outlook. So, your verbal gestures and body language play an important part in the work-place, don’t lean into closely to your male colleagues, maintain a safe physical distance.  You don’t want to come across as flirty or sexual, and send the right signals for the right results.  It is work, and it’s ok to sort of dress tastefully sexy, but I’d leave all the knee-high leather boots and short skirts, and cleavage items at home.  And actually men, you know they’re visual creatures.  You just need to understand that they have their own set of challenges, and challenges of having high testosterone levels.  But it’s the same challenges that keeps the human species alive.  So, I think as women, we can be more empathetic to the cause of how men are wired, and present ourselves in a more appropriate way in terms of how we come across, and how we direct our communication.  And sure, if you’re dressing in a way that’s going to create flirty gestures and create any indications that you might be interested in anything more than just being a work colleague and a professional, then expect that he’s probably going to act on it, if he’s single that is, I’m talking.  He’s probably going to act on it, and that’s just guys for you.   They are built and wired to reproduce, that’s their big responsibility, is maintaining the human race and having a high testosterone level.

TL:  Mm, hmm.  Wow, this is fascinating.  I’m actually pausing as I was taking a few notes here Pamela, I’m like wow, that is fascinating.  So, give us the name of your book again, and let us know how people can connect with you.  Because I think everyone who’s listening, every person tuned into Heartrepreneur® Radio right now, you need to understand this, whether you’re male or female.  This not only involves your personal life, it involves your business life, and I think we really should get in and understand this.  And we’re talking to the only Friendship Expert and Friendship Coach that I know, so tell us the name of your book and how we reach you again Pamela.

PN:  Yes, so my book has just been released this morning.

TL:  Yeah! Congratulations!

PN:  You can buy it on Amazon and it’s my first published book, and it has been scientifically endorsed.  It is called Just Friends:  The Ultimate Girl’s Guide to Male Friendships.  Within four hours, my book has made the Amazon’s hottest new sellers.

TL:  Uh! Congratulations!

PN:  I’m in the top 20 already, so it was a bit of a surprise to me, but I’m very excited about everyone taking this book and changing their friendships.  A great way to live our lives and investing in relationships is the single greatest investment you can make for your life.  And leaving aside that social media and technology is dominating the desire for me to want to write a book that brought humanity through friendships again, was strong.  So, people can reach me on, and on the website, is all my social media links, Facebook is called Platonic Planet as well, and the book is available right now on Amazon.  And, the even better news, it’s going for 99P, or 99 cents as you would say in the USA, for the next 48 hours.

TL:  Wow!

PN:   So, go out to grab them now, the normal price will be 7.99 pounds, but I think that equates to around $9 for the e-book.  So, the e-books are going for 99 cents, and $18.99 for the paperback copy.  Very useful information, and I don’t just encourage this because this is my book, if I could give away loads for free, I personally would do it.  And the reason I’d say that is because like you’d said earlier on, we co-exist with each other as human beings, this is a book for life.  Understanding each other, and understanding friendships, and I’ve taken it all the way back to our childhood and how we develop friendships.  Now we can re-learn all these skills, or we can do introspections and we can change things within us inside and outside.  And I share all my life experiences, and a lot of science incorporated, and it’s guaranteed to help people make friends, it’s focused on women making male friends.  But I can assure you I had a team of over 20 guy friends who reviewed the book and are absolutely fascinated with it as well, including the scientific professors who were male.

TL:  That’s beautiful, wow.

PN:  So, it will be good reading, I hope so.

TL:  Thank you so much for being here Pamela, so much value.  One more time, your website and the name of the book, I want to make sure everybody gets this.

PN:  Absolutely.  So, the name of the book is Just Friends:  The Ultimate Girls Guide to Male Friendships.  It’s available on Amazon right now for 99 cents.  And the website is

TL:  Perfect.  So, I’m going to encourage everyone to run on over, get the book, make sure you check out her website.  I learned a lot today, I’m sure everyone else did too.  Pamela, thank you so much for joining us here on Heartrepreneur® Radio.

PN:  It’s been a pleasure Terri, and thank you for having me.

TL:  You’re welcome, and congratulations on the success of your book, and I recommend everybody hurry, get a copy of the book.  Start having some different interactions.  And, I just want to remind the listeners, make sure that you subscribe to the iTunes Heartrepreneur® Radio so that you never, ever miss an episode, you could have missed out on this episode if you weren’t subscribed.  So, make sure that you subscribe, that you hear each and every episode, we have more amazing guests for you here on Heartrepreneur® Radio.  Again, thank you for tuning in, thanks for joining us, it’s Dr. Terri signing out.

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